Will Ye Also Go Away?

January 5, 2017

Ren Posts

The following are notes from my journal that have helped me. For the full audio Click Here.  

At the of the Bread of Life Sermon the disciples are upset because some of the things Jesus has said go against their traditions in John 6.


(60) This is an hard saying; who can hear it? Jesus then says: 

(61) Doth this offend you?

(66) Many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Many then left Jesus.

Everyone of us at some time or another is going to experience some kind of Challenge of our Faith

With membership in the church you have access to mysteries of God. Temples, continued revelation, forever family, Priesthood, redeeming the dead, our own patriarchal blessings, additional scripture the list goes on.

Why would you walk away from this?

3 reasons (John Pontius)

1- Your going to get Offended. This is why 95% leave.

2- Your going to be tempted to not go to church and partake of the sacrament where the holy spirit is promised to be with you for 7 days which then opens you up to the power of the evil one.

3- Your going to come across anti-Mormon material.

A decision was made decades ago that the part of our church history that was not faith promoting, should not be made public because not everything in our history was positive.


Gordon B. Hinckley created the “Joseph Smith Papers” project.

He decided that we should compile all of the information that we could find on the Prophet Joseph Smith into one volume and make it available to all of the public that in the past was restricted to certain people.


Hinckley said:

“The prophet Joseph Smith’s history will stand on its own”.

As a result members of the church have faced first hand accounts on their own history that goes against what they thought was true with some doctrine. It has shaken them up I think in a good way.

The church has issued  Essays to discuss some of these issues.  Topics like: Becoming like God, Mother in Heaven, Plural marriage and so forth.

Wheat from the tares

I believe this is just one method of dividing the Wheat from the tare. Throughout time this has always happened where people have turned and walked away.

Well the devil has lied to us again and we have slipped into this feeling that prophets and apostles don’t ever make any mistakes.

All the way through Joseph’s life he was chastised by the Lord and received a remission of his sins many times. This is just so liberating to me because it means I have a chance.

D&C 93:47

“And now, verily I say unto Joseph Smith, Jun.—You have not kept the commandments, and must needs stand rebuked before the Lord;”

I just love that! He made mistakes and had to repent yet here’s the important part.

God allowed him to!

Prophets have a holy assignment and a mission yet God allows them to make mistakes because they learn from their own experiences like you and I do.

More Reading: Fail Forward

That’s the whole purpose of having a Savior, because we make mistakes. We learn from those mistakes and we repent.


In 1839 in Far West Oliver Cowdery and the majority of the members of the Quorum of the Twelve and first presidency were on the stage of apostasy. They were in open opposition to Joseph Smith.

In June 27, 1844 Joseph Smith was murdered. By Who? Well some of them were former members of the church. 

Do you see a pattern here?

What’s the big deal? Prophets make mistakes. It’s always been that way. Yet it doesn’t change a thing as far as the overall performance and mission of the church and the gospel. It doesn’t change a thing.

Ronald L. Halstrom gave a talk titled “Converted to his Gospel Through his Church” (April 2012)

The church can’t save you. The President of the Church can’t save you, nor can the First Presidency, or any member of the 12 or any other general authority. They cannot save you!


They are to guide us with inspired counsel towards Jesus Christ.

I’m not concerned about the general authorities mistakes. Because my membership in the Church of Jesus Christ has brought me to a point where I am independent of relying on others for what the Lord wants me to accomplish.

Do I have all the answers? No

I have learned the hard way that every thing that I want from God is attached to a law and a formula, accompanied by covenants. 

If I  I align myself with that law, through humility, repentance and obedience, I can have the heavens opened, and receive anything I want. No restrictions but I have to pay the price to access it.

Earth life

Nothing in the telestial world is stable. This is not the real world, and you in this telestial body, the natural man, is not the real you.

You are a spiritual being who’s been called to get your glory, power and knowledge. 

It is better for us to pass through sorrow, that you might learn the good from the evil.

Notice that the passing through’ indicates it’s temporary at best. You’re in a school room and you’re taking a test. Don’t let one or two items cause you to throw the whole thing out the door.

It’s the perverbial ‘throwing the baby out with the bath water’. It doesn’t make sense. Take a different view that church leaders always have, do, and always will, make mistakes and know that God allows that.

Brigham Young Younger Pic

Brigham Young said:

“Now those men or those women who know no more about the power of God and the influence of the Holy Spirit than to be led entirely by another person, suspending their own understanding and pinning their faith upon another sleeve will never be capable of entering into the celestial glory to be crowned as they anticipate, they will never be capable of becoming Gods.

They cannot rule themselves, to say nothing of ruling others, but they must be dictated in every trifle like a child.

They cannot control themselves in the least, but Peter, James, or somebody else must control them.

They never can become Gods nor be crowned as rulers with glory, immortality, and eternal life.

They never can hold scepters of glory, majesty, and power in the Celestial Kingdom.

Who will? Those who are valiant and inspired with the true independence of heaven”. (The Privileges and Blessings of the Gospel,Feb. 20, 1853)

Do you see that? If you have to be told what to do in everything, if you don’t make a move until you’re instructed by your leadership, you forfeit exaltation.


Everything that we do in the church is ‘training wheels’. When you take the training wheels off, you don’t throw away the bike. The training wheels are there to help you to come up and obtain something higher.


The war in heaven was fought over this principle. There was a mighty General (satan) that said:

“You can’t think for yourself. Let me take care of you. If you think for yourself, there’s too big a chance, too big of a risk that you’ll never make it back and you’ll fail and lose the whole thing. I will take care of you.” (devil, lucifer, satan)

Sound familiar?

All we need to do is adjust our thinking and come back to the doctrine. The church has been exactly what it’s supposed to be. 

Those of you who want more are going to have to step outside of that comfortable little box and pay a price to seek for and obtain personal revelation.

You’re going to have to align yourself with the laws and covenants that will put you in a position that you can obtain that revelation. There is nothing that can or will be withheld.

2 Nephi 4:34

“Cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm”.

Vision of the Red Wagon

“There was a hand holding the handle of a little red wagon that was rusted, patched and pretty beat up. The wagon was filled to the brim with all kinds of wonderful gifts that were luminescent and vibrating with light and life. 


It’s His little red wagon but you have to look past the wagon and remember whose hand is at the helm and the gifts that are available.

Side note: I’m good with someone seeing the truth and using their free agency to choose otherwise. I’m NOT good with is the devil’s tactic of blinding people so that they make decisions without even knowing it.

All the Best to you and your family!

PS: Click here to read My Story.
PPS: Connect with me through Facebook.


Calling on all Warrior Angels

Other Quotes:

Joseph said:  

“I told them I was but a man and they must not expect me to be perfect. If they expected perfections from me I should expect it from them.

But if they will bear with my infirmities and the infirmities of my brethren, I will likewise bear with their infirmities”. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith pg 268)

“A prophet is only a prophet when he’s speaking as a prophet”. (H of the Church page 278)

I love this statement by David O. McKay about the “Humanity of the Prophet”.

“When God makes the prophet he does not unmake the man.” (April 1962)

Lorenzo Snow said:

“I can fellowship with the President of the Church if he doesn’t know everything.

I know, I saw the imperfection in Joseph Smith and I thank God that he would put upon a man who had those imperfections the power and authority he placed on him.

For I knew that I, myself, had weakness and thought that there was a chance for me”. (Quoted by Neal Maxwell October, 1984) 

Gordon B. Hinckley said this:

“I have worked with 7 presidents of the church. I recognize that all of them have been human, but I have never been concerned over this”.

“They have had some weaknesses, but this has never troubled me. I know that the God of Heaven has used mortal men throughout history to accomplish his divine purposes”.

Boyd K. Packer said:

“The brethren then and now are men, very ordinary men who have come, for the most part, from very humble beginnings.

Do you know how really inadequate we are compared to the callings we’ve received? Can you feel, in a measure, the overwhelming weight of the responsibility that’s ours?

If you look for inadequacies and imperfections you can find them quite easily. But you may not feel, as we feel, the enormous weight of responsibility associated with that calling that’s come to us.

We are not free to do some of the things that scholars think would be so reasonable, for the Lord will not permit us to do them, and it is His church.” (CES symposium August 1981)

Bruce R. McConkie said:

“With all their inspiration and greatness, prophets are yet mortal men with imperfections common to mankind in general.

They have their opinions and prejudices and are left to work out their problems without inspiration in many instances”. (Mormon Doctrine)

“The opinions and views, even of a prophet, may contain error unless those opinions and views were inspired by the spirit”. (Institute of Religion Oct 1966)

“Every word that a man who’s a prophet speaks is not a prophetic utterance. Joseph Smith taught that a prophet is not always a prophet, only when he’s acting as such.

Men who wear the prophetic mantle are still men. They have their own views, and their understanding of gospel truths is dependent upon the study and inspiration that is theirs.

Some prophets . . . and I say it respectfully, know more and greater inspiration than others.

In essence, prophets and apostles are first and foremost, aside from their holy calling and the anointing they receive for that, are men in a fallen world working out their own salvation with the fear and trembling like everyone else”. (Q&A for teaching seminary  pre-service 2004)

Joseph learned from the 116 page lost manuscript:

“I learned that whatever God says is right”.

In Alma 30:31 Korihor is a lot like us. He is having difficulties and finding fault with the church and the leadership. It’s nothing new. This has been going on since Adam.

“(31) did revile against the priests and teachers, accusing them of leading away the people after the silly traditions of their fathers.”

Joseph said:

“The things of God are of deep import and time and experience and careful, solemn and ponderous thought can only find them out”.

Brother Packer said:

“If you have time, take time. Don’t be in a rush to make decisions that could determine your eternal destiny.”


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